2009-06-16 [Chel.]: *DOUBLE ORGY*

2009-06-16 [NOOOPE]: *Blasts ya'll with a fire house*

2009-06-17 [kay-chan]: *likes it*

2009-06-17 [Duke Devlin]: This is a FANTASTIC wiki page. :) I don't have record of many, but I have played as a great many over 30/40 year olds. :) My friend and I used to get sick of playing younger people, as it was always so strict as to what you could do with then (scenario-wise). It's the age that bugs me the most... Oh, and the eye thing. -.- <3 Thank you for this. :D

2009-06-18 [Flisky]: Hmmm. This is good. And too true. But I play both genders, which isn't really a stretch for me. Looking over my characters, they are quite diverse in everything except age and physical tone. Though, in my own defense, I do play some characters who are quite young. Well, at least physically young. ^_^

2009-06-18 [NightHawk]: This trend you see used to bug me, too, until I kind of moved away from online role-play. But if you step back and look at things from a different perspective, you'll realize why "everyone" plays attractive, able, and young characters, and these reasons come in several flavors. To name the two that pop into my head immediately: 1) fantasy role-play is about fulfilling one's fantasies (go figure). Deep down, doesn't everyone want to be eternally youthful, attractive, and good at everything they touch? 2) Today's society is filled with such figures, from the sexy gals on billboards to heroic anime characters, and places like Elftown are where people get to emulate those idols.
As a writer, I would agree that in a story meant to emulate quasi-real-world experiences and values, average to ugly people are the norm (go for a stroll through the local mall and learn that you can count on two hands the number of attractive people in a medium crowd).
I think the problem here is not that the groups you (I mean M! as well as everyone else in agreement here) run with are busy blowing off adolescent steam by playing such characters, it's that we've outgrown the need for that kind of fantasy and are looking for something more substantial, something that coincides with what we've read in literature and which better emulates real-world populations and situations.
So, those are my two cents. I'm neither bashing you for bashing them nor really agreeing that all the kids here need to grow up and stop playing bishounen and bishoujo. I just think it's a viewpoint worth mentioning.
(Aside): Wow, it's been a while since I've posted anything in the wikis or comments boxes.

2009-06-18 [Flisky]: *thinks about what [NightHawk] said* In all reality, I've never played a character who was good at everything. (I try to create really unique but beleivable character flaws, such as distractability and clumsiness). I really don't like when people try to play their characters as 'perfect'.

2009-06-18 [NightHawk]: Like I said, I'm not pegging anyone here for anything in the above wiki rant. Heck, I don't think I've ever role-played with anyone here (as hard as [Aeolynn] tries to get me involved! :D). Nevertheless, I highly doubt anyone here has "always" played utterly realistic characters; think about it. Have you ever had your character react to something or respond to something in a way that was influenced by your desire to keep him or her alive, or because you didn't want them to look like an idiot? If you haven't, then congratulations. It took me seven years to get over that complex. And, if you haven't, aren't you ascribing to yourself the very same quality you try to avoid in a character?
As a side note, I actually sometimes enjoy the occasional perfect character... as long as they fall from such grace at some point! ^^
Mmm. Food for thought. Now time for food for the tummy.

2009-06-18 [NOOOPE]: "I think the problem here is not that the groups you (I mean M! as well as everyone else in agreement here) run with are busy blowing off adolescent steam by playing such characters, it's that we've outgrown the need for that kind of fantasy"

Can't it be both cases... some people are blowing off adolescent steam and other people have outgrown it? Shouldn't it be less of an "or" and more of an "and"? I don't get the "not" in there. It's definitely both situations butting heads.

As for the rest... I'm not trying to be mean, but... duh. I think "You're either basically pumping out people you wish you could hump, or people you wish you could be" kinda less wordily makes the same point.

2009-06-18 [NightHawk]: Well, I think I should have completed my statement with something like, "... and yet find ourselves stuck with the same people we've outgrown," or something to that effect. Neither situation is the problem; after all, playing characters "you wish you could hump [or be]" is certainly a valid stepping stone toward greater creations. The problem is, like you said, the two worlds clashing. For the time being, I'm going to hold my tongue on further comment because you and I are clearly in disagreement about certain items, and I'm much more interested in my peanut butter and jelly sandwich than in sparking a great debate. ^^

2009-06-18 [Aeolynn]: wow it got hot in this wiki all of a sudden *turns on a fan* also, in pertaining to the age thing, for some people who haven't become old yet, it is sometimes hard to play an older character. And for characters with lives outside of the roleplay, such as a married woman/man, or with children, it would be hard to go on an adventure with them to take care of. Unless your character just abandoned them, it isn't realistic really for you character to be tied down, unless it ties into the plot of them needing to rescue them.

2009-06-19 [NOOOPE]: I'm not sure what points we disagree on... I didn't pick up on a rebuttal, rather an elaboration.

2009-06-19 [Aeolynn]: Oh we all agree with you M, that there needs to be more diversity. So you're right, we are sort of all ellaborating on our own personal experiences with this.

2009-06-19 [NOOOPE]: It's just, I'm unclear when and how a debate would form with the current posts.

2009-06-19 [Aeolynn]: I don't think we're debating...

2009-06-19 [NOOOPE]: "you and I are clearly in disagreement about certain items, and I'm much more interested in my peanut butter and jelly sandwich than in sparking a great debate."

I'm not sure what's in disagreement to debate about. Unless... the point being made is that you [NightHawk] think it's acceptable for these people to make these sorts of characters as a "stepping stone", but how would that conflict with what I have said? What I'm asking is for people to launch off said stepping stone and to try something new and out there next time. I understand why they're doing what they're doing, that didn't need to be spelled out for me. But those facts in no way deter me from making my plea, matter of fact they are the cause of it. So... I don't know where this allusion to a future debate is coming from. I'm just confused. 

2009-06-19 [Aeolynn]: >.o well... I completely agree with you on this. Just, I do think there are some exceptions, like the comment I made two hours ago.

2009-06-19 [NOOOPE]: Oh, didn't see that. And I don't think the not being old so you can't play an older character is a very poor excuse. Are you an elf? A guy? Why can't your imagination stretch to older people? And in lots of history, the dad at least was always out to war or work. With the mom, that would be harder, but why can't she have the kids at boarding school, be barren, bring the kids along or tons of other situations?

2009-06-19 [NightHawk]: Well, I kept things a little vague on purpose. If I actually voiced what I disagree with, I'd be starting a debate, wouldn't I? ^^ It's only a difference of opinion, anyway.

As for the mother with children problem: shoot the children. With a telephone pole launched from an enormous bow. :D *evils*

2009-06-19 [Aeolynn]: We should make an Anti-children wiki lol... Pro-pets!

2009-06-19 [Flisky]: Well, M, now you've done it. I created an older character. (30-something. Not old, but still, much older than I usually run. And male, too.)